Cindy (00:00):
Really get to know your audience on a deeper level. 'cause That's ultimately the goal of the research phase before you go and write copy, is to understand your prospect on a deep level. Because if you understand these things, writing a caption, writing an outreach message, writing an email becomes so much easier. Wow. 'cause I have a thousands of topics that I can pull from. I could say, have you ever faced this challenge? And my ideal PO is gonna be like, yes. I have the psychology of persuasion. The psychology of why and how people buy. It's like you're understanding your audience on such a deep level that you connect with them. And that's how you create copy that converts.
Tim (00:35):
If your copy can feel like you understand them, then they're going to convert. Welcome to the Takeover with Tim and Cindy, where we show you how to dominate every area of life and business. Let's get winning.
Cindy (00:56):
Welcome back to the Takeover with Tim and Cindy. Have you ever come across a social media post an email blast, or even read something and thought, wow, it feels like they're speaking directly to me. That my friend is the power of good copy. And in today's episode, we are going to walk you through one of the fundamental parts or areas of creating copy that converts. So before you write your next piece of copy, before you do an email, before you write any kind of copy, you are going to want to lock into this episode. Good copy cannot only help you explode your marketing efforts. It's also gonna help you connect with your audience on another level. So in this episode, we are gonna walk through one fundamental part of creating copy that converts. We're not gonna give you an entire masterclass on how to write good copy, but this one critical area of writing copy is going to be a game changer for your copywriting. And that one phase that we're gonna talk about, Tim, is the research phase. Now, this is not some like boring write writing. We, we
Tim (02:11):
Might just lost a few people there. Like if you're about to leave, don't leave. I just want to keep talking to anybody. If you're about to leave, don't leave stay. 'cause I promise you this is gonna be fun.
Cindy (02:20):
It's not some boring, like writing a school paper type of research, this research that we're gonna chat about, it's fundamental to understanding your audience on such a deep level that when they do read the copy that you write, it feels like you're speaking directly to them. Why Tim, is this research phase so important?
Tim (02:40):
So when you think of research, we want to think of research in a way of, when I go write, I want to enter the conversation already happening in this person's head. When I'm writing something, I want subtle little words and nuances of what we're writing saying to resonate with words that are already playing in their head with ideas, with emotions, with things that are stressing them out with problems that they're dealing with. We want them to feel what we're saying. And if we just go out there and think, Ooh, good copywriting, good marketing, good messaging is just how can I do this cool thing that shows how revolutionary and breakthrough the technology of my product is that doesn't connect. And the only thing that gets somebody to stop in their tracks, except for really outlandish things, but like when you're selling a product that gets them to stop in their tracks, is when you enter the conversation already happening in their head. For sure.
Cindy (03:42):
Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. And I think far too often when people are writing copy, as you mentioned, they wanna write it from a place of how great our thing is, how awesome it is. Yes. And all of that. But really good copy, copy that converts copy that gets people to take action is, as you mentioned, entering the conversation already in their mind or connecting with them in such a way that when they read it, they feel like this person's speaking to exactly what I am thinking in my head. Right? You're connecting on such a deep level. So yes, with that said, let's go into how we approach the research phase. There's certain questions that we ask. Yep. Upfront and ladies and gens, if you take this approach, you are gonna see transformational results in your copy period. So you wanna do this before you write any other piece of copy for your company or for your team. Make sure that you lock in on these steps. What are the questions, Tim, that we wanna ask ourselves about our prospects upfront that's gonna allow us to write better copy, whether it's in an email or in a social media post, or even an outreach message. What are those questions that we wanna ask ourselves upfront?
Tim (04:52):
Yeah. And before I jump right into the questions, I wanna say, if you get these right, your results will not just be incrementally better. They'll be exponentially better. So I want you to imagine a world where when you go do a Facebook ad, you do a couple tests and you know, every single time I'm gonna test three different ads. You know, every single time one of those tests will be a winner. Yes. When I go to do a LinkedIn or email or any kind of outreach or cold calling, I can write two scripts and you know, can, I can know one of them will for certainty produce results. I can have that level of scientific testing. So when we're talking about good copy, there is an art to it, but there's also very data-driven. Yes. Science. So the way that we create scientific level testing and having that kind of predictability when we go to an outreach is this research phase.
Tim (05:46):
And it's actually really fun because you're answering these questions and the very first thing that I wanna know is, what is keeping your prospect? That means the person that needs your service. What is keeping that person up at night? I staring at the ceiling, cannot sleep. And I want you to just take a moment and think about those sleepless nights that you've had those nights where you've been up and you're just stressed out. Like, what if I don't get this thing fixed? What are those things that you're stressing about? Those are very deep, emotional, powerful things and we want to be able to figure out and understand what are those things that's keeping your prospect up at night that our product has some kind of relationship too that can solve. So once I understand that thing that's keeping them up at night, eye staring at the ceiling, just stressed out, I wanna know what's their top three daily frustrations?
Tim (06:39):
Yes. If I was to walk through a day in their shoes, what are the three main things that they are frustrated about? What are the things that just keep irking them day after day after day? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, why do you think that matters? How does that impact? Because that is a daily thing that they're dealing with. And if you come in with some woo woo, our product is revolutionary breakthrough technology, that blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's not speaking to that thing, one of those dailies frustrations. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. They're like okay, cool dude, I've got something else I'm trying to solve right now. Goodbye. But if we can speak to one of those daily frustrations, we can actually stop them in their tracks, get them to read our copy, get them to look at our product. And then ultimately, if I'm in a sales call and I solve one of those three problems, get them to buy my product. Yes.
Cindy (07:26):
So good. So we went through what is keeping them up at night, and then what are their top three daily frustrations. The goal here is to determine like what is the pain points, right? What are the challenges that your prospect is facing? What is keeping them up at night? And it is very emotional things, right? Like, what are they frustrated about? Asking ourselves these questions upfront can really help us understand our prospects on a deep level. And if you have never done an exercise like this before, highly, highly recommend that you do because it's gonna help you transform the way you not only see your prospects, but the way you speak to them as well. And again, yes, this is not what's keeping Tim and Cindy up at night, right? It's not what's keeping you up at night, it's what is keeping your prospect up at night, right? So you're answering this from a perspective of your prospect in mind. Now that we know those few things, what else should we be asking ourselves with regards our prospect?
Tim (08:16):
So when I'm thinking of sales, marketing, any kind of process, I first want to know what is the stress? What is the problem? What are the daily frustrations? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Then you kind of think about, okay, what's the goal? What's the desire? But I always, I always think about it mentally like this. Once I fix problem, once I remove frustration, what goal or desire am I trying, does this person wanna accomplish? Right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, we've all seen a million weight loss, a million weight loss commercials and products and, and, and it's always losing the weight so that you can have this beautiful life and you're happy and you've got a six pack and whatever that is. What is that? Perfect world. Another way to say it would be, what is the promised land? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. What is that? Just that ideal world, that desire that your clients, that your prospect gets once frustration, problem, desire is solved.
Tim (09:08):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that is what is that goal? People always wanna start here. And it's the wrong way to look at getting an interaction with somebody is starting with the dream and the hope. 'cause People are primarily wired to avoid danger, to, to solve problems, to run from pain, to get an aspirin over getting a vitamin. Like this is the way we're wired, is to remove pain from our lives. So we always wanna start with what's the problem in pain we solve. But then we do wanna understand once we solve that problem, what's the desire? Yes. What is it they really want? And like, let's be real about this. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, what is it that they really want? That they're maybe not what they say socially that they want, but like, what do they really want? Like if, if in certain social circles it's not cool to say you wanna be rich, like you know more about impact and all that fine.
Tim (09:55):
That's what they might say on the surface where they say maybe they do wanna be rich. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, maybe they do wanna have social status. Yes. Maybe they do wanna be able to show their wife or their kids that they can be the husband that can provide and travel them around. Maybe they want other people to see that they're that kind of entrepreneur that can build something big. Those are the real kind of desires we wanna get to is yes, what is not just the thing they say they want, but what is the thing that they really want when no one else is around? When they, when at the, the core of their being, the root of their being, the motive and the desire behind wanting those things.
Cindy (10:29):
So good. Yes. So we have the problem and the challenge. And then we also know like once that's alleviated or solved, what is that ideal picture of the promised land? The amazing life that once they've solved their issues that they can actually attain and have. And I think understanding this for your prospect also helps you to speak very clearly to these desires that they have. But very often people don't know what their ideal prospects really want. So it's very difficult for them to speak to that, which is why it's critical to understand this in the research phase. What else should we be asking our, our prospects at to this research phase? Hey there, friend. If you're enjoying the podcast so far, make sure that you are subscribed so you never miss an episode. Subscribe and follow the takeover with Tim and Cindy. Wherever you are listening. New episodes are released every week.
Tim (11:18):
So you have to also understand what are the things they've tried to do to fix problem, get outcome. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, right? What are the things that they've tried before? I I call this attempts and considerations. What are the things that they've tried before? Why did those things fail? What are the things they're considering right now? Like, what is the landscape? So I, I always think of attempts and considerations. What are the attempts they've had? Whether doing it themselves, hiring another company and why did those things fail? Why did they not work? Then considerations, which would be, what are the other promises happening in the marketplace? What are other solutions in the marketplace? Why did they like those solutions? Why did they not like those solutions? I wanna understand what have other people tried to sell them that they didn't buy? And I wanna understand why they didn't buy it.
Tim (12:03):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So these are kind of advanced nuances I'm giving you here. So come back and watch this episode a couple times if you need to because some of this stuff is real straightforward, kind of easy to get. And some of these things are a little bit more nuanced. I would say attempts and considerations can be a little bit more nuanced, but it's gonna be a really good way for when you go position your product to solve the problem. Not your product is a solution. How, look how awesome I am, but hey, we solve X problem. You can really make sure that you're shooting down some of the other attempts. For instance, the way that I would apply this in my copy is, Hey, we help people get X so, you know, self X problem get y outcome without having to do Z. Right? That and that Z could be the attempts that they tried before that didn't work. Yeah. So for instance, if I do outbound marketing, and I know a lot of people have tried social media posting, I could say, Hey, we help people get leads and clients by doing outbound marketing without having to do one co post on your social media. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That would be an example of me being able to use understanding of attempts and considerations to leverage my copy and kind of set my copy apart in the marketplace.
Cindy (13:14):
That's so good. I think another way to look at what other attempts or considerations have they tried to solve the problem. You can even ask what are they googling or researching on YouTube to solve the problem? Mm. Like what is the exact text that my ideal prospect is typing in to YouTube to try and find a solution to their problem? 'cause That's also gonna give you some ideas on some things that they're considering or the way in which they're trying to approach the problem. Right? If I know that I'm reaching out to executives and I wanna help them become better leaders, right? Say that's my offer. I maybe wanna research, okay, what exactly are executives typing on YouTube or on Google to try and be better leaders? Maybe they're typing in how do I lead my team better? Or how do I connect with my employees on a deeper level? Things like that. Mm. 'cause That gives me ideas around the perspective that my ideal prospect or my ideal client is taking on their pain or their challenge or their frustration.
Tim (14:15):
And that's all data-driven research that somebody can do without even having to talk to their prospects.
Cindy (14:20):
Exactly. Exactly. There's such great information. So now where we're at, we have all the questions, remember we're in the research phase. We have the questions that we're gonna ask with regards to our prospect, what's keeping them up at night? What are their challenges and frustrations, ideal hopes and desires, where does our ideal client want to be? What do they really want on a deep level? And what have they tried to solve this problem? What are they researching online? So we've answered every one of these questions that's already gonna give us so much information that we can then leverage the answers to these questions to write better copy. Whether it's, again, social media posts, an outreach message, anything on online, you can really utilize the answers to these questions to fill in the blanks to help you write better copy. The question then becomes, all this is great and all, but where do we start? Where do we find the answers to these questions? 'cause I think the approach, Tim, that a lot of people take is to try come up with the answers to this in their head. And what they actually end up coming up with is their answers to their questions. Yeah. And not what their ideal prospect is thinking, researching, et cetera. So how do we come to this information from our client's perspective and not from us?
Tim (15:35):
Yes. Step one, step one, step one is be willing for your assumptions to be wrong. Hmm. Be very scientific, come from a very scientific mindset. The the thing about science is that it approaches in an ideal world. So science approaches every problem to be solved as, hey, we're, we want to, you know, look at some theories hypothesize, and we ultimately wanna find what the truth is. So you are gonna come into this with some ideas, some theories, some some core beliefs on, hey, I think my clients may or may not be dealing with this. So you can start with those assumptions. That's good and good science always starts with assumptions and theories. But being scientific on this, you want to seek primarily the truth of the situation. Yes. Even when, and actually, especially when those the truth clashes with your assumptions. And when you can do that, when you can come into this from a place of humility and seeking what is the truth, what's the real answers to these questions?
Tim (16:31):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you're going to get to the real answers, which creates copy that really converts. Absolutely. And so step one, step into this from a place of humility and a very scientific approach to this, completely disconnected and we're emotionally attached to our ideas. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we're gonna have ideas and assumptions, remove that emotional attachment. And step one, step two would be then to, you can bring some of your assumptions and theories to some clients, whether you already have clients or if you don't have any clients and you're looking to go get your first amount of clients, you can reach out to some people that would be your ideal clients. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And say, Hey, I'm, I'm building this product and I just had a, wanted to ask you a few questions. If you're open to it, you know, once we launch the product, I'm happy to give you a big discount on it or give you something cool if you answer 10 questions from me or whatever.
Tim (17:17):
And you can ask these questions, Hey, what's the most common thing that keeps you up at night? What are those three daily frustrations? All the questions you have here, just ask 'em those. Yes. Like literally just ask 'em those and, and I promise you, you're gonna get people that are open to answering those things. Absolutely. And that's gonna start you on a path. Absolutely. To get closer to the answer. You know, just what people tell you in a survey is not always gonna be what's actually going on, but it's gonna get you closer to the truth
Cindy (17:37):
For sure. Right.
Tim (17:39):
So that would be step one is remove any kind of emotional attachment to your ideas and theories. Step two is gonna be just go talk to your clients. Start right there. Step three would actually be sell your clients something <laugh>, because there's a client will tell you what they like and what they don't like a heck of a lot more when they've invested money with you than if they haven't invested money with you. So that'd be the three kind of steps. But I mean, before getting the clients, how do you create the copy that converts? What are research things that you would do between step two and, and three? 'cause Step three is get the client, but what are the, like the tools that you can use to actually go out and do the research?
Cindy (18:16):
Yeah, for sure. There's so many great resources online for you to learn more about your ideal prospect. Some really simple things or things like Cora or Reddit, any kind of forum where your prospects hang out. Go and read those. Go and read what your ideal prospect is talking about and communicating and venting their frustrations. Like what are some of those things that come up? Forums, wherever your ideal client is hanging out, go and read those. Do a deep dive into those 'cause you'll be able to pull out some of the answers to those questions. Facebook groups are great. There's tons of Facebook groups that you can go into and start to read. What questions are people posting on those groups? What are the comments saying? How are people engaging? What frustrations are they expressing? What desires are they expressing? Facebook groups are great for that.
Cindy (19:03):
It's, it's the same concept of go where your ideal prospect is hanging out. Yeah. Right. Some other really cool resources you can have a look at, our team does this internally is Amazon books. So what you're gonna do is you're gonna type in say, my topic is leadership. Okay. So I'm gonna type that into Amazon books and I'm gonna find a few books that come up. And specifically I wanna look at the reviews section of the books because that's gonna give me some really, really cool information and interesting information on what people liked about the books and what they didn't like about the book. If I'm an executive leadership coach, I know that my ideal client is purchasing books on leadership. Yes. Why not take a look at the reviews that they've left on other leadership books and see what did they like about it and what didn't they like? What's frustrating them about it? What, you know, you can learn so much about a topic by researching reviews. So that's a keyt tip for you all. That's
Tim (19:53):
That's real. That's ninja. Yeah. That's, this
Cindy (19:55):
Is this next, this is next level stuff. Copy stuff. That's
Tim (19:57):
Sounds like ninja.
Cindy (19:58):
This is next level copy stuff. Super cool. We're we're giving you guys a deep dive into our research phase and how we approach copy. And then the last one, which is really, really good, and you all may have never heard about this resource, so we hope that, you know, you hear here first, but it's called Answer the Public. Mm. I believe it's answer the public.com. And here you can type in a topic, say we're going back to that leadership example. So I can say leadership and I can see it's gonna pull up all the questions that my prospect is asking around leadership. So it could be like, what are the top seven leadership books? So it could be how to become a better Leader. So this is actually gonna give you questions of what people are researching online, be it on Google, on YouTube, on Yahoo, et cetera.
Cindy (20:40):
So onto the public is a great, great resource to come to terms and to think about like, how am my ideal prospect thinking about a, a certain topic. If it's lead generation, I could type in lead generation there and it's gonna pull up thousands of topics around lead generation that people are searching for online. Mm-Hmm. So those are some resources that you all can dive into, read research and then pull out as much as you can add them to one doc so that you can start to really get to know your audience on a deeper level. 'cause That's ultimately the goal of the research phase before you go and write copy, is to understand your prospect on a deep level. Because if you understand these things, writing a caption, writing an outreach message, writing an email becomes so much easier. Wow. 'cause I have thousands of topics that I can pull from. I could say, have you ever faced this challenge? And my ideal process is gonna be like, yes, I have. Right. And
Tim (21:32):
That could be the common frustration you see in the forums. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the Amazon, but didn't answer this question. And in answer to the public, you go, most people deal with X problem and most that's out there is this thing. And people go, yeah, it's exactly
Cindy (21:46):
What I've the same exactly what I've gone through. Wow. So it's just like the psychology of persuasion, the psychology of why and how people buy. It's like you're understanding your audience on such a deep level that you connect with them. Yes. And that's how you create copy that converts. It's not about fancy lingo and you know, like this hyper fancy language and all of that and how great your product or service is people wanna connect with. Like, do you understand what's going on in my life and how can I relate? Sure. And when you can do that through your copy, you actually create copy that converts.
Tim (22:16):
You know what it, it almost feels like, I keep feeling like as we're talking through this, and it's almost like the, I know when you're on a sales call, for instance, if the person I I'm selling can really feel like I'm listening to them, that I understand them and that I understand their problem and their situation, they're gonna buy it doesn't matter how great my product, if they don't feel like I understand them and their unique situation, even though it may actually not be that unique of a situation to them, it feels very unique, very personalized. And if they feel like I understand them in their situation, they're gonna buy. And this is, this is the same human behavior concept is if your copy can feel like you understand them, then they're going to convert.
Cindy (23:01):
Yes. Wow. Absolutely.
Tim (23:04):
<Laugh> and what a, there's some really ninja techniques that you have there with Answer The Public doing the, the Amazon books, jumping on the forums and the Facebook groups. 'cause I think these environments, you think about reviews, these environments are where people are probably the realest and most authentic <laugh> Yes. The Reddit groups where people are venting Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> like, that's, that's where people talk real, not corporate-y businessy, you know, with their LinkedIn tie and picture on like <laugh>, but like the real person that you're really talking to that you really want your copy to cut through Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and speak with. Oh, so powerful. Absolutely. So powerful. So what a great episode. This is a theme that I would say we use a lot with the team is slow down to speed up. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and doing the research phase is a for sure if you slow down and get this thing right, it will make your sales scripts, your, your copy or any activity that you do moving forward with your marketing and sales so much easier.
Tim (23:59):
So slow down to speed up now as we always talk about what is one thing you can take away from this episode that you can apply to your life, your business this week that can start making that difference. Because, I mean, that is what Cindy and I are here for. That is why we have created the takeover is because we want you to dominate every area of life and business. And if you try to do a thousand things all at once, you're gonna do nothing. Well. And so if you can take one thing away from this episode and execute it today and make your business your life better, more effective, your marketing, your copying better, more effective. I mean, if you could like literally just understand, go and look at the reviews and start to understand what people are frustrated about, what they're complaining about, what they like, what they don't like, that immediately will give you a deeper dive insight into what it takes to actually sell your customers.
Tim (24:51):
So find what is that one thing that you're gonna apply? And if you need to come back and listen to this episode, 2, 3, 4 times book market, do that. This is, this is something we actually do internally and we've done tens of thousands of campaigns very, very effectively. So there's a lot of goals here. So definitely bookmark this and come back and yeah, that's it. Again, this is the takeover, Tim and Cindy. And if you are listening to this on any of the audio sources out there, make sure to follow this show. If you got a lot of value from this show, give it a rating. That Five Star really, really helps us show. And we have a lot of content coming out. I mean, Cindy and I are really here to help people dominate every area of life and business. And remember, domination is not a destination. It is a way of life. Stay winning. My friends.