How Being Helpful & Making Friends Can Grow Your Business with Joe Lazar

Can simply being helpful and making friends grow your business?

In this episode, Joe Lazar, co-founder of Article Group, shares how empathy, problem-solving, and building genuine relationships have been the core of his success. 

Learn how storytelling sets you apart in B2B marketing, why team culture matters, and how understanding your customer’s challenges is more valuable than the product you sell.

Key Topics & Chapter Markers:

00:00 - Introduction

02:47 - From Freelancer to Building a Thriving Agency

07:04 - Defining the Business: Product Marketing vs. Content Creation

14:34 - The Role of Trust, Transparency, and Being Helpful

20:23 - Building a Strong Company Culture and Team

28:52 - What Would You Do If You Lost It All?

Connect with Joe:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-lazar-marketing
Website: https://articlegroup.com/

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About The Hosts:

• Tim & Cindy Dodd are the Co-founders of PEMA.io, based out of Miami, FL. Connect with Tim and Cindy: Instagram

About PEMA.io:

• PEMA.io is a Inc 5000 Outbound Marketing Agency specializing in Enterprise Sales & Appointment Setting. With over 7-years and 1,000+ clients served in the industry, PEMA is the leading agency for cold outreach appointments & systems. Learn more about PEMA.io here: www.pema.io/discover

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:47 From Freelancer to Building a Thriving Agency
• 7:04 Defining the Business: Product Marketing vs. Content Creation
• 14:34 The Role of Trust, Transparency, and Being Helpful
• 20:23 Building a Strong Company Culture and Team
• 28:52 What Would You Do If You Lost It All?

Transcript

00:00

the key to long-term sustainable growth. It doesn't matter if you're a product company, it doesn't matter if you're a service company. Whatever you're doing that day will eventually be obsolete. Your product, the thing you're literally selling will eventually be obsolete. And so the way to grow in our view, sustainably, being an enduring company, is to prove to your customer over and over and over again that you really understand what they're going through. You understand them.

00:29

their challenges, that never gets obsolete. That always resonates. Welcome to The Takeover with Tim and Cindy, where we show you how to dominate every area of life and business. Let's get with it.

00:45

Welcome back to The Takeover. Today we're going to be doing a deep dive into the B2B marketing world with a true expert in the field from messaging to video campaigns. Our guest does it all. And what I'm really excited to learn about more is his approach to B2B storytelling. Our guest is a key player at the article group.

01:05

which is a creative agency that helps clients tell compelling stories centered around their customers, not just their products, which is extremely important with marketing and sales. So with that said, Joe Lazar, welcome to the show, brother. Well, thank you very much for having me, appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be here and talk with you. I mean, yeah, let's jump in. So let me ask you this. When you went from freelancer to getting a partner, say, what was your mindset shift there? Because freelancer...

01:33

For you, what was that more of a, hey, making some money on this side? And then the partner that was like, hey, let's grow this thing big. What was your mindset kind of around those stages? Every year, I mean, I was growing 100% revenue every year as a freelancer. Like, after the first year, I thought, I think this is what I do now. Like, I think this is my... Huh. Yeah. And I kept growing, and then I was like, wow, this is going great. But I also thought we can do more. I can do more.

02:03

I could grow a company out of this. I think there's more than just solving one-off problems for customers, for our clients. My business partner, who happens to be my best friend from college, approached me. The two of us came together and we're like, let's make this a thing. Let's grow and see where we can make a positive impact for ourselves and for our clients. That's how it started, just the two of us.

02:29

kind of taking what I had been doing freelance and scaling it up a little bit, expanding it out a lot. And, you know, in the process, hopefully, building an enduring company that people really wanted to work for. What shift happened when you went from partnership to kind of where you guys are at today?

02:47

Very good question. I think just to rephrase it, you're asking like, how do we go from two to where we are? Like, what does that look like? Well, what did you do at two? How are you thinking about, were you still just getting flooded with clients? What we're doing right now is brand as a publisher. Meaning it's content that goes out into market that people want to consume, learn from, and there becomes an affinity for the brand that publishes that content.

03:16

And that was kind of the impetus for us going from what I was doing, which was a lot of keynotes and core product marketing positioning to a content business. That was the impetus. And that was like a little bit of the wind in our sails. Like, this is what we're going to go after. This is what we're like. This is what we're going to build. And we did. We were building it. But all of that core product marketing work that sort of seeded the freelance work that I was doing, it never let up.

03:46

It just kept going, it kept growing, and we couldn't ignore it. So we thought we were gonna be a content shop, and we are. We have a content team, they're killer. But anyway, we couldn't ignore this product marketing sort of center of gravity that kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And we struggled for a long time to kind of define ourselves. Are we a creative shop? Are we a creative agency? Are we an advertising agency? Are we a content agency?

04:16

And the product marketing work and the product marketing needs and our clients as product marketers, they just signal to us so loud and clear that your segments, this is what you should be going after. This is how you should position yourselves and all of those other things, the advertising, the content and so on. That all falls into product marketing. It's just become so much easier and clear to talk about your business, to appeal to your customers when they be like, oh.

04:46

I hadn't heard of product marketing agency before. Right. It's a lot of sense. I think I need that. It makes you stand out among the, well, what do you do? Everything, for who? Everyone. And we do product marketing. I'm sure just that alone, if you're up and you're giving a proposal versus another company, that probably alone got you a lot of deals. It did. And it was very helpful.

05:12

to not be just another ad agency or creative agency who would show up to our clients and try to pitch themselves as experts in what they were looking for, when we would show up and be like, okay, you're a B2B technology company, you're a SaaS application company, and you are having a hard time connecting all of your marketing ideas with the salespeople on the ground. This is what we do all the time every day. Now, the downside to that, of course,

05:42

is if we get into a pitch where like, oh, you want an anthemic TV spot, we're probably not your agency. And there aren't that many of those anyway. So in terms of how to grow and finding your segment, finding your customers, being clear on what your differentiation is, it means all the basics that are still so true in building and growing a company. Knowing who your customer is, knowing what they need, proving that you can...

06:11

deliver on what they're looking for. We actually have a whole framework on how to think about this and communicate with this. That's incredibly useful and really easy to remember because it's just telling a good story. And that, we live that ourselves. You want the key to long-term sustainable growth. It doesn't matter if you're a product company, it doesn't matter if you're a service company. Whatever you're doing that day will eventually be obsolete. Your product.

06:38

thing you're literally selling will eventually be obsolete. Yeah. And so the way to grow in our view sustainably being enduring company is to prove to your customer over and over and over again that you really understand what they're going through. You understand them, their challenges. That never gets obsolete. That always resonates.

07:04

And so they end up investing in us and they end up investing in our clients, customers end up investing in our clients. Yeah. Because they believe, oh, they get me. And so their product may be the same, maybe even a little worse than the competition in one metric or another. But we trust that they get us and that they will be with us on whatever journey we need to be because they have proven through the way that they empathize with what we're going through, that they understand.

07:34

what we need, not just today, but what we'll need tomorrow. And that is how we have grown sustainably. And so most of your growth has happened by growing with clients and their accounts getting bigger. And word of mouth, referral, that's your two primary growth channels. Absolutely. Yeah, organic growth, it is so much cheaper to grow a client than it is to find a new one. So when you're taking on a new client, let's say you get a referral somebody brings in.

08:02

What does your guy's sales process look like? How long is that sales cycle? How do you think about the sales process and really converting a, hey, you gotta talk to Joe's team to, hey, let's get started. There is an amazingly simple way, and this is actually true with networking, it's true in all business development. It's also true internally. If you show up and you're just trying to be helpful, just be helpful.

08:32

which makes it not about you. I'm not selling a product, I'm solving your problem. Truly, it's not like I'm not trying to do a Jedi mind trick on anybody. It's truly our point of view is we're here to help you. We're not here to make as much money as we possibly can. We're not here to demonstrate our amazingness. We're just here to help you. And what that looks like sometimes, just as an object example, if someone says, well, here we have a problem and we're not sure how to solve it.

09:01

An example of being helpful as well. If you go with us, here's how we might do it. If that doesn't sound right to you, you might be better served finding a freelancer, just as an example. And I'm happy to introduce you to some freelancers we know that are wonderful. Wow, something like that builds massive trust. Yeah, and we mean it. Yeah, it's not just a technique you're using, it's authentic and people probably pick up on that a lot.

09:29

Absolutely. Very rarely do we need to make an intro to that freelancer as an example. Often we close the deal. We really mean it. We're just here to help you. I always look at it like this. And I know you have some pretty big logos. We used to sell to smaller businesses and it was very much a one-two call. You're getting the deal. You're not getting the deal.

09:52

when you're working a much, much bigger, there's, you know, there's more complex, maybe you have to get involved with procurement and all these different things. It really is. It makes the difference. If you are not feeling like a trusted advisor, if they don't see you as somebody that's there to help them, truly, truly help them and want to know their needs and solve their problem versus, hey, here's my cool product and here's how awesome we are and hey, we're Batman and we're going to come in and take over. Whereas,

10:20

you need to say, hey, you guys are Batman. We're just Robin, how can we come and swoop in? That makes such a big difference. And so from what I'm hearing on your side, and everybody listening to this, this is very, very, very true, is that when you are building that relationship from the get-go, you're seeing yourself almost as like, you've already hired us and we're just giving you advice on what we would suggest moving forward versus, hey, we're trying to get your money. 100%.

10:47

A hundred percent. And that ethos spreads across everything we do, including with our employees. Like our employees, they're our partners. They don't work for us. They work with us. I mean, of course it's a traditional employee-employer relationship, you know, like paychecks and all that. But like they're not going to come hang out unless they're getting paid. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it's like, obviously those sort of table stakes are all there.

11:16

But we're trying to create an environment where people can just kind of show up and be themselves and they feel like everybody's here to help each other. We're not here to get the promotion. We do a good job. The promotion happens. It's like in growth. We're not here to close the sale. We're here to be helpful. And when we are, we'll close that one and the next one and the next one and the next one. The other thing I would say about

11:42

closing deals and being an advisor and being that trusted partner. Every business has an element of a commodity to what they're doing. I mean, there's no such thing in my view as a truly unique offering. There's something. Well, but what about that person out there says, no, Joe, my business is different. We are different. Not for long. Because one of two things is going to happen either.

12:11

You're going to go out of business because you're so different that nobody wants it. Or you'll be really successful and people will copy you. But being able to be clear with yourself and your clients where you are unique and where your commodity lies makes closing deals easier, makes financing easier. When I say financing, I mean pricing. In design, for example, and my designers would kill me if I said this, design can be a commodity because there's a lot of great designers out there. Yes.

12:40

like that's just a factual truth. But the way that we work with design and the consultative, leading with being helpful, that's where the difference lies. And that's why people come to us. So knowing the difference between where your business is commoditized and where you're truly adding differentiated value, I think is also a really helpful engine for growth. Because you can lean into things that make you different. You can lean into things that make you better. Then not better because it's not a value judgment.

13:09

make you better suited to the problem at hand that your clients are coming to you with, and then make a lot of margin off the commodity piece. Because that's where you have lower factors of production. It's where you can start to see a flywheel. You can start to scale. Meanwhile, if it's intellectual property or if it's some interesting point of view, or if it's a really tight partnership or whatever it is,

13:35

That's what keeps people hooked, which keeps them coming back and provides an outsized value per the input. Wow. Yeah. So, I mean, what I love is that you connected how you work with your clients to how you actually work with your team. I always say you don't build a company, you build people and then people build the company. And so our team, everybody hears me say this, anytime Coulter's brought up, I mentioned that at our team, we have clear values, but we also

14:04

meet with each one of our employees every two weeks and go over what's your personal, professional, financial goals and how can we help you hit those. And I think so many, anybody out there that's thinking, hey, there's not any good employees, like there's a ton of them. Guess what? They're only going and finding great leaders that wanna support their goals and vision, right? Great leaders are not here just to, hey, you guys all support me. Great leaders are, hey, how can I help you? How can I serve you? And that in turn creates people that are actually bought

14:34

and working and making sure that Joe's vision is accomplished because you're interested in their vision. So I would love to hear just a little bit more on how do you attract great teammates and how do you build culture at the company? From my perspective, there's absolutely no way you're gonna execute as great as you guys have without great culture and a great team. Hey there, we're going to be coming out with a lot of new content to help you level up.

15:02

in all areas of life and business. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you're listening so that you get immediate updates as soon as a new show is released. Well, there's our businesses, the agency world is driven by people. Our product is people. Like that's without people, we're nothing. There is no business, cause we're just, it's not, there's no bits and bytes to what we do. It's they're hiring the people. So yes, you're absolutely right.

15:32

And the things that motivate us are autonomy, which is doing things the way you want to do them. Mastery, which is the feeling like you're getting better at something. Wow. And purpose, which feeling you're doing something for a good reason. Those three things were at the foundation of how we wanted to create something for employees to feel great about what they were doing and feel motivated. I mean, that was a huge foundational piece to how we started treating people. That was number one.

16:01

Number two, and this is so cheesy, but it's just true. Empathy. Like, what do people really go through when they're working? It's about them as human beings, not them as like worker bees who need to get the job done. That is how you create a culture that people want to be part of, because you're seeing their entire lives and you care about them. Last I'll mention is that we were founded remote and distributed from day one.

16:32

but we don't require anybody go to, I hate going to an office personally. Same, same. I remember when I left Salesforce and I was working for, like the first day I worked from home, I was like, oh my God, I'm never going back. And that links to the autonomy right there. 100%. So what I'm curious about is, cause I totally believe that autonomy, mastery, and then like purpose, there's some meaning behind, I love that. How do you ensure that you're not,

17:01

abdicating, like how do you ensure you're delegating versus abdicating? And anybody that doesn't know what that means, it means like abdication is you're just going, hey, do this and then you're not keeping them accountable, you're not supporting them. And then all that whereas delegation is like, hey, you're actually supporting them, you're checking in, there's accountability. How do you guys ensure that the quality is getting done and that the teammate is supported while giving that kind of autonomy? So autonomy in...

17:29

our world is you work the way you want to work. Doing good work is non-negotiable. One of the requirements working at Article Group, and we've gotten rid of people because of this on occasion, is you have to be crazy smart. It's just one of those companies. And the reason is, is that the clients that we work with are of a caliber where everyone you're working with is often very smart because just the Amazons and Googles and Salesforce's and...

17:56

of the world, they just attract really smart people. And you've got to be able to keep up, if not go a little faster, be a step ahead. And so the quality of the work is usually just high anyway, because really smart people who have ambition want to do great work, and they pour themselves into it. The way they do it is kind of up to them, because nobody's over their shoulder telling them how to do something. That's number one. Number two.

18:25

a more direct answer to your question around like, it's a question of management. How do you manage someone to make sure that they're on point? I am a terrible manager. I'm so glad I figured it out before it was too late. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm not a bad boss. I'm just a bad manager. And I'm a bad man.

18:53

almost having a project manage thing or what area are you, do you find yourself lacking as a manager? So I've got, as like human to human, I've got empathy for days. But in terms of work product, I don't have empathy because I'm like, why isn't this done yet? You shouldn't this be done now? Like what's taking so long? That's number one. Like it's just, I'm not a jerk about it, but I'm like, I don't understand where the problems are.

19:20

So I don't have empathy for that. Like I wish I did, number one. Number two, oh man, all the administrative stuff, I just don't have an eye for it. I don't have a nose for it. It's just not. You're missing some of the admin and then when something's late, you're very upset at the quality and the timeline is not on point. And so is that- I have a damn fault. So is that your co-founder? Are they really good at operations? Or do you have somebody on the team that does that? Yeah.

19:49

Yeah, no, he's not good either. When the team was small, it sort of didn't matter. But as you grow, you need the right people doing the right jobs. And so we now have a CEO who's great and knows how to manage. We have a head of people. One of the things that when we hired a head of people, you could call her head of HR, but she's so much more than that. Again, people is what that's our value is our people.

20:19

powerful people in our company, which is not normal. There's that when I, in business school, this is the worst thing ever. In business school, there was this thing we would say, cause we were jerks. Those who can't, HR. It's just such a horrible thing to say about that profession. And I'm eating my words, cause it's the most important part of our business. Yeah. It's all about. So. If you got the wrong person in that seat, man, it's fabulous. You get the right person in that seat. And, and it.

20:49

It builds the people up, which then build the company up. 100%. And so how do we make sure that people are on point and that they're being properly managed and that there's accountability? Those two are examples. We have the right leadership in place, putting in the right systems to make sure that, OK, we're professionalizing our company a little bit. As we grow, you have to professionalize. You can't be seat of your pants. And so we're professionalizing those things like reviews.

21:18

like promotions, all of those things are so much more professional now than they were in the past because me and my co-founder who are bad at all of those things are no longer doing them. Thank God. And that's really it. You just got the right people doing the right thing at a management level. Yeah. And so you guys have, you have the CEO, so you have a full executive team running the pieces. And where is your main focus, Joe? What does your day look like? I mean, I know it's not sitting at home watching Netflix. I'm sure you're

21:47

You're still got a business building going on. Yeah, for sure. So my time is spent doing in terms of work. Like service and clients. I am focused on our keynotes and events business as well as like kind of any time a client needs a narrative. And for us, narrative is a very, very, very specific term and a very specific exercise. Yeah.

22:15

created, this is another part of growth. I talked earlier about how do you know who your customer is and what they need and where you're commoditized and where you're different and all those things. We were having a really hard time. How do we create something that has a little bit more scale, a little bit more templatizing so that we can sell it faster and easier? That's what I do day to day. That narrative stuff, the narrative clinic. And you enjoy doing that. Well, yeah, it's a puzzle.

22:45

And I like solving the puzzle and I am good at it. I'm not like I, you heard I'm, I'm really honest with what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. Good at that thing. Uh, I'm not good at most other things, but I'm really, really good at that thing. Um, but I mean, even what you're saying right now, being willing to say, I'm really good at this, we're not good at this, that alone right there is.

23:08

probably why you've been so good at winning deals, not just because of the trust factor, but I think too often times when people are getting these big products, hey, can your product do this? Yes, can your product do this? Yes, and it's like, so your product can do absolutely everything perfectly all the time, yes. Whereas, hey, you know, we're not great at Y, but there's no one better in the business at Z. You know, so what's more important to you, Y or Z, oh, Z's more important, that's the thing that people come and hire us for.

23:37

That builds that massive trust. And that's not even a technique. I keep hearing you say things like this over and over again. So it's very authentic. Well, yeah, I mean, it goes back to growth and building an enduring company. There's this great, I think it's attributed to Mark Twain, a quote that says, never lie. I never lie. So that way I never have to remember anything. I have a terrible memory. So if you're just honest with your clients, honest with yourself, it's just everything is easier.

24:05

This is an important one, I think, for your audience around networking. Because I think networking is where a lot of people do like, oh, well, I want to grow, or I want a new job, or whatever it is. I better go and network. I hate networking. I sure do. But you know what I like? I like making new friends. Networking is self-serving. Making new friends is good for everybody. Everybody likes to make new friends.

24:34

So that's what I think about when I think about networking. And if you think about it, connecting with somebody at a human level, it's not about business, it's not about work. Even if that's the context you're surrounded by, they're gonna wanna talk to you and they're gonna wanna be around you. We've had, to give you another side of this, we've had clients who after working with our team say, man, are you guys hiring? Cause I don't wanna work for here. So when you go out to build a company,

25:03

Find what is the mission you want, what are the values you have, build a company around that, hire and attract around that. We built out our seven core values in 2020. I had to rebuild the company because it grew too fast that I didn't have what I now know as culture. Build the company the way you want it to be. What are the values, what are the culture, hire and attract around that because studies have shown over and over again, it's not as important what your culture is, what your values are, what your missions are.

25:31

What's most important is that they're clearly defined and that the team, the people that you hire are bought into those values and then you hire, you fire, you make decisions by your value, your mission, your culture. And so it's not you're at five o'clock and ping pong tables, 1000% agree on that. And how did you think about building your culture? We have our principles as well. Things like get to useful quickly.

25:59

make relationships before things, look at your fish, which is one of my favorite ones. Then what that means is like, look around, pay attention. I know it's really simple, but I love it. And those are just reflections of how we saw, of what we saw in work experiences that we liked and what we saw that was really lacking. I had work experiences that really taught me the difference between what it was to be valued as a colleague. I have another great story.

26:29

again, for a tech company who shall remain nameless, that sort of illustrates this in terms of like, what were the experiences that shaped how you treat people, which just shows up in culture. Like that's the manifestation is how you treat people. I was at a company, I was probably maybe a couple months in and I'd always been reasonably successful at work, but man, I was not doing well. It just was, I was trying really hard and just was not being successful. And...

26:59

You ever see Office Space? The movie? Yeah, of course, yeah. So do you remember when the lead character, he's like, I'm not gonna try anymore. I'm not even gonna come in. I'm just gonna give up. And they bring the consultants in, Bob and Bob, and Bob and Bob are really impressed with this guy. Like he totally gave up and they're like, you're really crushing it, Peter. You're doing a great job. So I did that. I'm like, I'm just not gonna try anymore. I'm going to, I'm not gonna raise my hand in meetings.

27:28

I'm not going to that the inspiration was the movie a little bit. And it was just also like, I was just like, I don't know what to do. I can trying so failing. I'm just not going to try anymore. Three weeks later, I have a meeting with my boss. And he said, and I quote, I don't know what you're doing, but you really turned it around so close. He didn't say it crushed it, but it was the same the same concept. I love that. Oh, my God, you have got to be kidding me.

27:54

You know, they weren't hiring me for my effort and my brain. They were hiring me to do what they wanted me to do, do what I tell you. Autonomy, mastery, and purpose just kills all of them. And so that, like, how do we, to answer your question, how do you build a culture? You take from those experiences and you don't replicate them. You learn how to engineer the opposite. Cut out all the things you didn't like and add all the things that you did like. I want to kind of transition.

28:23

Because this has been a very, you've had a great network, you've created great friends, you've done really great for your clients, that's grown and grown and grown. What would you do? We know that if you see really successful businesses, if you were to lose it all, we see that these companies, these entrepreneurs, they're often able to build it back to the level they're at or even greater in a rather short period of time.

28:52

If you lost all your money, all your contacts, and your business, what would you do? What strategy would you execute to get back to where you're at right now as quickly as possible? No money, none of your current contacts, and nothing in your business. I'd do it the same way. I would look to be helpful to whomever and however I could get in touch with people. So one thing I didn't mention is I wanted to work in the beer business.

29:20

That was after Salesforce and before freelancing. I ran marketing for a brewery. And how did I get that job? It's the answer to your question. How would I start over? There's a brewery fairly local to us named the Laganitas Brewing Company. You might've heard of it. Yeah, delicious beer. I looked at what they were doing. I looked, and this was back in the day. I was like, I got ideas for them. I'm just gonna write them down and I'm just gonna deliver it to their doorstep. And I got meetings with them. They didn't know me for a while. I got meetings with the brand new CEO.

29:49

And then shortly thereafter, I saw that Anderson Valley Brewing Company was acquired. And I emailed them cold. I'm like, hey, I just was speaking to Laganitas. I see you got acquired. I have a marketing background. Do you want any marketing? Do you want some help? Can I be helpful? I landed the job. Yeah, I mean, it's incredibly disarming to people in what is often a cutthroat, money-obsessed world.

30:18

when you just are truly there to be helpful and you make friends so fast. I just was, I mean, it's crazy how much faster you connect with people when you're truly there to help them. And that's what I would do. I'd just be helpful. It works. It also feels good, by the way. Yeah, I agree. How can people get connected with you and your company and maybe kind of who are the kind of...

30:48

people or contacts that you do want to meet. Sure, so you can check us out at articlegroup.com. There's a contact page, super easy to get in touch with us there. You can find me and the company on LinkedIn as well. Feel free to reach, if you watch or listen to the podcast, feel free to reach out to me and say, hey, I heard it, let's connect. I'd be happy to connect with you. And the kind of- Put the code word in, beard, hey, hey, the code word beard, and he'll know who you're talking about.

31:16

That's right. We both have beards, so there you go. Yours is much more formidable than mine. And the kind of clients that we work with are primarily B2B technology companies. But really what we do is we solve really thorny hard marketing problems. That's what it ends up looking like, whether you're B2B, B2C, or what have you. The ones that ad agencies don't want to take because they're like, I don't know how to think about that. We eat those for breakfast. So difficult, thorny, weird.

31:46

marketing problems are bad. But yeah, that's what we do. Well, I love it. Everybody make sure if you have some kind of need for what Joe said, you work with bigger companies. So if you want to connect with Joe, follow Joe. And yeah, make sure you're connected. You're going to say something there, Joe.

32:06

all sizes of companies. The market enterprise, everything. Everybody, everybody. I think I mentioned that narrative clinic thing. We do that for small companies all day. Here I am trying to explain people. You're like, no, man, everybody. So everybody listening to this, reach out to Joe. But ladies, he is married. He's happily married. So none of that weird stuff. Right, none of that weird stuff. All right, brother. Well, this is great to have you on the show, Joe. And we'll talk to you soon, brother. Thank you so much. All right, bye for now.