The Takeover with Tim and Cindy

7 Secrets of Winning Agencies (and Why Most Fail)

• Tim and Cindy Dodd • Season 2 • Episode 3

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Most agencies don’t fail because of bad talent or weak ideas. They fail because they miss the very things that separate short-lived shops from thriving, dominant businesses.

After working with 400+ agencies, from solo hustlers to 8- and 9-figure giants, we’ve identified the seven moves that winning agencies make every single time. 

These are hard-hitting truths that determine whether your agency becomes irrelevant…or unstoppable.

If you’re ready to see what the most successful agencies are doing differently, and how you can apply it to explode your growth, lock in to this episode. The difference between scaling and stalling may come down to these exact seven strategies.


Chapter Markers:

[00:30] Why most agencies fail
[01:30] Selling outcomes, not services
[04:45] The “no-brainer” offer strategy
[09:50] Why the first close is never the end of selling
[13:15] Reporting like a SaaS company
[20:30] Pipeline, QBRs, and profitability

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About The Hosts:

  • Tim & Cindy Dodd are the Co-founders of PEMA.io, based out of Miami, FL. Connect with Tim and Cindy on LinkedIn and Instagram:

About PEMA.io:

PEMA.io is an Inc. 5000 Outbound Agency specializing in helping Marketing Agencie...

00:06

Welcome to The Takeover with Tim and Cindy, where we show you how to dominate every area of life  and business. Let's get winning.  After working with over 400 marketing agencies from solo founders hustling in their kitchen to multi eight-figure teams with over a hundred employees, we've seen exactly what separates the winners from those who are here today gone tomorrow. And in this episode, we want to reveal why most


00:35

agencies fail. Let me tell you, there are seven very specific things that the winning agencies are doing differently. So if you are a marketing agency, definitely lock in whether you are running your own agency, working for an agency. If you're not an agency, you are still going to get a lot of value from this episode, we promise. So lock in. Really excited for this one because these are so practical that if you can learn these early,


01:05

You're going to accelerate your growth a lot, but also these are areas that, Hey, if you are already doing super good with your agency, you might see two or three of these like, Hey, we actually could level these up a lot better. Not every one of the big agencies is absolutely doing every one of these seven perfectly. So if you're already a big agency, listen in, pay attention because one or two of these things added onto, if you're already doing five of them,


01:30

can take your agency to the next level. So let's go ahead and jump in. Cindy, what is number one? The first thing that we see the winning agencies do differently  is they sell outcomes,  not services. So I think about the average agency, and we work with so many. When I'm reviewing somebody's onboarding form, reviewing their information, the majority of the agencies that fail  or that are not succeeding at the level that they could be, they're selling SEO.


02:00

paid ads, design, branding. They're selling the thing, right? What they do, their service, but they're not selling the outcome, right? Essentially, the people on the other side do not care that you are selling SEO. They don't care that you're selling paid ads. What they do want  is the end result that is going to give them the outcome that they want. And this is...


02:25

Differing depending on the audience you're talking to so if I'm selling mid-market and enterprise and I'm talking to a director of the marketing or Cmo the outcome isn't just the outcome I deliver for the company It's the outcome that I deliver for that Cmo specifically so it's not just hey we deliver XYZ outcome and the same way I was gonna go so what that's what everybody else says what I want to do if I'm talking to like a Cmo or a marketing leader is I'm actually going to talk about the outcomes I deliver for them how I make it


02:55

easy and frictionless for them, the type of reportings that we're going to give for them, the timeline on outcomes, because when you can make them  successful in their role, which is yes, one tied to the outcomes that the company gets, the results the company gets, but also the outcomes, the ease, the removal of friction, the way that you make their role easier and produce a better outcome, which is better for their career, that's how you're going to win. So you also have to not just


03:23

Preaching  outcomes versus activities. We want to talk about what are the outcomes for this specific person that I am speaking with now. And if you're doing a complex cell, you have to understand there might be three or four stakeholders involved and you want to understand what each of those people are going to be looking for and how you can make each one of those people buy into the process. So the lesson here is cell  outcomes.


03:48

not activities and make sure those outcomes are something that actually matter to the specific person or persons,  the stakeholders that are going to be involved in the decision making process. So here's the shift. Instead of saying we sell  SEO, we can help you do really good paid ads. We can help you rebrand your design. What you should be selling is specific growth metrics, visibility, market dominance. If you're selling the outcome that the person wants,


04:17

not selling your amazing SEO package because they don't want that. What they're looking for is the outcome and what it's going to do as to mentioned for their role. Is it going to make it a lot easier for them  or is it going to produce the outcome that their role needs at the time? 100%. 100%. And this number two is something that we've really, really seen make a massive difference for agencies. And that is you have to lead


04:46

with a no-brainer offer. If you're coming in  and you're  sure if you got a referral and the person's already like knows you, likes you, trusts you, they've got a budget, like everybody wants a million of those. Like of course, I want people that are coming to me ready to buy and they've already got everything. You can do that, but your marketing and client acquisition cost becomes very expensive and very low scalability. Whereas if you have a no-brainer offer, great.


05:14

entry point to experience your agency to get a taste of your agency, then you can close even the coldest of traffic with a very high close rate. So instead of asking somebody to come in and do a $200,000 project with you, find the lowest entry point, the easiest, lowest risk, lowest price point for them to come in, taste and see and treat the first cell as just one step


05:42

and a longer sales process because a lot of mistakes people make is that we've got a six month sales process, we've got to do this, we've got to build this out and generally within six months we get the deal closed. Well, what if you just made the offer so low entry that you could close them on one or two calls? I'm talking about closing enterprise deals on one or two calls because you've removed so much friction from your offer, they've paid money and remember those who pay, pay attention.


06:10

And so now that you've got their attention, you've got them to pay, now you can start delivering a service that can land and expand and become very big with the customer. And so I think the biggest thing you can do as an agency is not try to get the big, huge contract right off the bat.  I mean, gosh, I'll be honest, I've lost  hundreds and hundreds of amazing deals I'm talking about with big companies over the years because I try to get this big project right up front.


06:37

Absolutely. And I think about the best agencies make it ridiculously easy for their prospect to say yes.  And the way that my mentor terms it, she says it's land and expand, right? So often we want that big, as you're mentioning, the big deal, the six figures, the seven figure contracts. When you are meeting somebody for the first time, potentially it's a cold audience. It's not a referral. There's no built in trust in this conversation.


07:04

You want to give that person an easy way to land with you because once somebody says yes to that initial service, the initial package, they've experienced how amazing your agency is to work with. They don't want to go out and find another agency, right? You've made it already easy for them to say yes. They're already in with you. It's so much easier to sell them the next thing and to convert that potentially five figure deal on the front end into a six and seven figure deal on


07:34

the backend. So think about have you mastered the land and expand strategy? Are you making it ridiculously easy for your prospects to say yes to you? Now you may be thinking, okay, Tim and Cindy, but what about like my client acquisition cost and making money on the first sale? What would be your advice Tim to people that are thinking about how do I make money and or rather not lose money on the first sale? Well, first of all, be okay losing money off the first sale. So if I'm


08:03

okay losing money off the first cell, but my conversion rate triples because I've made it so  easy for the company to go with me. I just cut my client acquisition cost into one third. So if I can start seeing my initial delivery with a customer as part of the client acquisition costs  overall, when I look at my sales process, I see my sales processes. The first cell is still part of the sales process. Me,


08:33

Retaining them is part of the sales process. That first project I do with them is part of the sales process. They're upsells. The whole thing is part of the sales process. And when you shift, where your money's being spent on the front end of trying to get the perfect customer to say, hey, if I got the right person, let me land and expand with him or her. And then let this become a bigger contract. You'll actually find if you do the math and you reverse it backwards, that it actually costs you less money to lose money on the first sell.


09:02

than it does to try to make a bunch of profit on the first sale and have such a low close rate and ultimately a much,  much higher client acquisition cost. ask, how can we, so of course you want to try not to lose money, but you have to be willing to lose money, so ask how can we operationally do this? How can we remove friction? How can we lower our internal costs? How can we make our process so freaking smooth that we can at least break even on the first month or two?


09:30

And then ultimately know because our product is so freaking good that they're going to love us and want to spend a heck of a lot more money with us. Absolutely. So that is the second thing we're seeing with the most successful agencies. They lead with a no brainer offer, and this is by no means deteriorating their value. They understand that once they land a company, they're with them forever. They understand that lifetime value. So take a look at your offerings, see if you're doing the land and expand strategy. And let's talk about.


09:59

the third thing that the most successful agencies are doing.  Number three is they don't stop selling after the first close. I think there's so much energy that goes around closing the deal as if it's a  one time event. So people spend all this time and energy trying to get the perfect client just to close this one time deal. And then once it's closed, it's done. And that is such flawed thinking. You really have to see that


10:29

Selling is  the close is just one tiny step in the bigger sales process and the most successful agencies they see that the sale doesn't end once the invoice is paid, but they're engineering. How do I deliver so much value that this customer wants to not just continue spending money with me, but wants to spend even more money with me? And so you treat


10:53

the entire operations at your company as part of the sales team, you incentivize all of your employees. Like literally every single employee at your company should know the three or four KPIs, the activities that they can do to deliver better for the client and know that they're going to get a bonus  based off of that delivery so that your entire operations becomes a sales team because that's where the most successful agencies excel.


11:21

They excel, they excel by taking one client and making that client spend an enormous amount of money because that client is getting so much value. So start seeing your operations  as  part of the sales team. It's not just we've got a closer and then we've got the operations. No, the entire team's job operations, everybody is to increase revenue for the company.  So here we're talking about how essentially expansion is engineered.


11:51

Right? These really successful agencies are baking in upsells, cross-sells, referrals into their process so that one client becomes two, three X, four X, five X revenue over time. And I think it's so interesting. We've seen this with a lot of our clients where they will get in with say a chief marketing officer at a large company, right? Say it's a B2B tech company and that CMO moves or transitions into another company.


12:20

And they've done such a good job with that CMO and they have such great rapport, such amazing relationship because they delivered on their product that the CMO actually ends up bringing them into their new position as well. And so you start to see your agencies, not just right growing with one company, it starts to expand and even get referred across different companies as well. And that is how expansion is engineered. We actually had that happen recently.


12:47

a marketing or sales leader came in, hired us for one agency left, went to another agency and hired us. And we're actually, working at both agencies now because that one marketing ourselves, sales leader hired us for both agencies. so happens a lot. Yep. And so when you absolutely like crush it and you engineer it, but that is also because our offer is so dang good. It makes it really easy to bring us into another company.


13:13

Let's go into the fourth thing that the most successful agencies are doing that we see. And the fourth thing is they report like a SaaS company. So let me tell you, at Pima, we started off, and I think you can remember Tim, all of our reporting was on spreadsheets.  We would manually collect data and report it on spreadsheets. And it's so interesting seeing the backend of so many of these really large successful agencies and even where Pima is today.


13:43

Everything that we report, we're reporting like a SaaS company, meaning we have a custom dashboard for every single client. We're looking at the story that the data is telling and actually connecting the dots for clients. We're reporting like a SaaS company. And I think clients trust you so much more because the decisions that you're making  are based on data and not on feelings, because data ultimately builds trust. This is becoming easier and easier to do.


14:10

Like even in the past episode, we talked about really becoming, seeing yourself as a software company, even if you're delivering services, because there's so many AI tools out there that you can literally go out there. Well, what's that one? Is it Base 44 or something? Base 44, Lovable. Yeah, all these tools can help you create custom apps. You can create custom apps where literally you export a Google sheet into a CSV file and you upload it to


14:34

to these things and then it'll give you these really cool custom reports. You can even connect like your Google Sheets directly to these reports and they get updated and it's so easy to do these days, but it makes a huge difference because  especially if you're trying to work with mid-market and enterprise companies, like if you come with bad reporting, they're gonna kick you out super soon. you seriously. They're not gonna take you seriously at all. And one thing that's interesting, even when we were just working with mostly small businesses, when there would be consultants that


15:03

did this for companies for a living, meaning they organized the backside of the operations and the spreadsheets and all the systems for companies, they would come and work with us and go, holy cow, your operations is so smooth. And even though we were using spreadsheets, it was like we had the data. So we were still presenting the data well. And now we've evolved and you can do it too with AI and technology, with these tools, it's so easy to now it's like there's these.


15:27

Dashboards that our clients see of the reports of the data. How many did we reach out to? How many said yes? How many books? How would he become a warm lead? It's like it'll really actually kind of data that they're probably not even tracking in-house even sophisticated companies. So when they see that we're  adding more value not just in the  service we're delivering but we're actually adding more value through the insights we're able to deliver through our data through our reports actually is a value in and of itself because the better


15:56

that we can deliver, actually helps them make better decisions in their company,  not just with our specific service.  Tim, what's the fifth thing that we see the most successful agencies do?  Hey there, I've got to stop here for one quick second to ask you this question.  Have you been enjoying the podcast?  If so,  make sure that you are subscribed and take that one extra step  to please leave us a rating and a review wherever you are listening to the show.


16:26

Not only does it help us continue to grow and impact more people,  we'll make sure that we show up wherever you are listening as well.  It always be building pipeline.  I've talked to thousands and thousands and thousands of agencies over the years. And  one thing that I just hear of these feast and famine folks, it's like, wow, we just got this big, huge client. We're so overloaded, Tim. Hey, follow up with me next quarter.


16:51

And then I follow up next quarter and they're like, man, we're just, we're down. We lost that contract. It's good. And it's like this beast in famine where it's like, get this big contract and we're so overloaded. We got to do all this work and man, things are so good. And then it's like waiting until you need pipeline to get pipeline is the way to stay small, broke and stuck. What the best agencies do. I mean, we are literally at Pima right now.


17:15

We are doing so well that we are putting people on a wait list. Like if you want to come work with us, great. If you're a fit, we'd love to have you, but you're going to have to go on a wait list just because we have an  overload right now. But does that mean that we're, we stopped our marketing? We stopped ourselves? Absolutely not. We're our sales machine, our pipeline is still building so that we have a pipeline of clients that, know, when we're ready to go and they're ready to go, we can pull it out. So the most successful agencies are constantly planning for


17:44

How do I keep my pipeline full? I know Cindy, you always talk about not just for next month, it's like for the next quarter in the next year. Yes, absolutely. I think it's thinking about the long-term, right? So you're not just thinking about building pipeline for this year or for this quarter. You're thinking about next year's growth because ultimately the pipeline that you build today can directly impact next year's revenue. So if you're only thinking about today or tomorrow, this month,


18:12

And the fact that, I'm overloaded with clients. I shouldn't be focusing on getting new leads. I don't have capacity. You're actually shooting yourself in the foot because three months from now, six months from now, a year from now, you're not actually paying your future self. Right? So think about building pipeline as a priority because that's how the most successful agencies are thinking about it. I know we took on one client early on this year around January.  And  one of the things that you spoke about with them, very directly was.


18:42

that they weren't looking for pipeline for 2025. And this was in January. They were very clear, we're building pipeline for 2026. And that is why they are such a successful agency.  So you should be thinking about how can I always make pipeline  a priority?  Even if I am at max capacity right now, I'm full with client onboardings, I don't have the capacity to take on any new clients, always think about the future.


19:10

Right. Will you be in the same circumstance six months or 12 months from now? Pay your future self by keeping pipeline top of mind today. Pipeline is, it's got to be a priority. And right now we have people reaching out because we've been so disciplined with constantly building pipeline. Even when we're making money, even when things are down, just at all times we're building pipeline and it's insane. We have so many people reaching out to us. It's just like a regular occurrence. Now, Hey, we spoke six months ago. Hey, we spoke.


19:40

And it was like, because we are constantly building that pipeline, it's just we have people  reaching out on top of the marketing we're doing and people we spoke to a year or two years ago, because we constantly have built pipeline. That's what's allowed us to now be on a wait list. Even though we're on a wait list, we're still building it because now it's like, okay, how do we build our operations out to handle it even more so that we don't have to be on a wait list? And of course,


20:04

because we build so much pipeline, even with our new capacity, we're probably going to hit another wait list. And that's the big thing. That's how companies continue to expand and grow is yes, through retention, through upsell, through all of that. But it's also by building a really solid pipeline and seeing it as something I'm building my pipeline as an asset that as I build it for the next year, two, three, four years, there's going to be momentum because I've invested in my pipeline literally every single week and month and quarter and year.


20:33

that four or five years from now, there's going to be so much amazing pipeline that the entire industry has spoken with us or talked to us at one point. And so they start seeing our company as  the company in the industry.  Cindy, what is number six? So the number six area that we see the most successful agencies do is host quarterly business reviews. Those are QBRs.  One thing that you mentioned earlier, Tim, is that


21:01

Successful agencies are tying their metrics, their data, their outcomes to the overall business goals.  And that is how you start to see a marketing agency as such a critical part of a business or an extension of a company they're working with. So QBRs, Quarterly Business Reviews, is where you're actually allowing your agency to connect, not just as a vendor, but as a strategic partner with the company that you're working with.


21:28

So here's how you're going to be tying the metrics or the results that you're producing with what the ultimate business goals are. This is how you start to see yourself as that strategic partner. And this is why agencies are staying with companies  one year, two year, three year, four year, five plus years, because they're not just an agency or they're not just a vendor that the company's paying. They're a strategic partner because they're adding value beyond what they were hired to do.


21:57

This is how you secure your strategic seat with the company, right? It's by delivering more value than what they're paying you for. And the quarterly business reviews are a great way to do this.  And when you really think about this, this is another layer on what makes your company irreplaceable. Like there's so many things that you can do to make your company sticky. It's like, right, number one, deliver such an amazing  product that you're, getting incredible results for the product specifically they're delivering. We talked about having reports that give


22:26

Insights because your data is so good. It actually gives insights that deliver value beyond just the  service you're delivering and then these QBRs when they start seeing that like oh wow We're getting insights from the company that allows to make even better strategic decisions They really do the more of these components Of course your offer itself has to be a no-brainer because you can't sell these kind of offers Everybody wants to sell like this value that they deliver on the front end people don't care about this on the front end


22:54

but once you're working with them, these things are really sticky. So that you really want to see yourself as a strategic partner. And remember, don't be one of those agencies that tries to sell that upfront. We're a strategic partner for our clients. That is only valuable once they are actually working with you.  And number seven is that these agencies are obsessed with profitability. The fastest way to kill a thriving agency is


23:21

agency bloat and you know as an agency ourselves we've experienced that it's like right the software the stack the this you start stacking it up thinking that one day people one day we'll be able to trim back and make it profitable but no the best agencies are obsessed with profitability from day one and if you're ever looking to exit your agency even if you're not looking to exit you should build your agency in a way that is exitable why is that because


23:49

the only way somebody would want to buy your company is if it can run smoothly by itself and has a high level of profitability. And so this is something you should do for a lot of reasons, but ultimately you built a company to make profit. Like at the end of the day, a company  is here to serve the risk taker. mean, most agencies fell, most businesses fell.


24:10

80 hours a week of work for years and years years years and years and you're risking your income and your finances and some people are taking out mortgages to get their business to growing. You should be obsessed with profitability. You should be obsessed with this company should pay the risk takers a lot of money.  How do you do that? Like, where do you even start? Because we've gone through this process a lot in our company. Like, where can people even start with this?  Right. So first thing we want to focus on is not over hiring  and


24:40

not ignoring the margins, right? So are you actually tracking your numbers and some specific numbers that you can focus on? Really one specific number  is revenue per employee. And we've spoken about this on the show, but essentially you are looking at how many employees do I have per million of dollars of revenue that I'm generating in a year, right? And that is a great indicator into if I'm bloated or am I actually performing really well with the margins that I have?


25:09

Typically, we look at about $250,000 in revenue per employee per year. And I think that's actually changed. I mean, if we look at how much with software and AI and how much you can do without needing to hire more staff, I think that that number can actually go up, meaning you can be generating a lot more revenue with fewer staff and employees. And what we're seeing with the most successful agencies, not only are they obsessing over profitability,


25:37

They're using software and AI as a means and a way to scale and keep their margins really, really tight. So never confuse growth with profits, right? We all want that top line growth. That's so important, but also make sure that you are looking at the bottom line profitability as well. And that's one thing that I see in the agencies that we work with and have worked with that are just thriving. They are obsessed with margins.


26:07

profitability,  not being bloated over hiring. And so we've seen quite a few agencies that have stalled or failed because they weren't focusing on these numbers. Absolutely. I mean, I'll give you two big contrasts.  One is,  and this will blow your mind, is a friend of ours is on track to doing 10 million this year. He's got four people on his team. Like let that sink in. Start asking the question, how can I not, can I?


26:33

On the other end, there's a client we had years ago and I've saved a lot of agencies. made this mistake early on before it was too late. And he's like, how's your agency doing? Oh, we're doing awesome. We're about to hire three more people. like, well, how many people do have on your staff? He's like, we've got six. We're to hire three more. I'm like, plus you and your founder. Yeah. So I'm like, you're going to 12 employees. What's your revenue right now? Oh, we're doing 65K, man. It's growing. I'm like, dude, you have 12 employees for 65K a month?


27:02

and I calculated, I'm like, you're not even doing a million dollars a year and you have 12 US-based employees. If you're  doing overseas, I see that three overseas people's worth about one US, so the calculation that this guy had 12 US employees, he's not even doing a million dollars a year. I'm like, dude, your business is about to crash. And because of that conversation I had with him, he was able to make adjustments and make moves versus having to go 12 months of losing money.


27:28

So kind of think about those contrasting stories where you have one person that's doing $10 million a year with four teammates and the other person's not even doing a million a year and they're at 12 people. There's so much that we think that once we get to a certain point, we can then fix things and trim it back. But the most, the best companies, they're not trying to scale top line. Yeah, you want to scale top line, but the most important part is how do I scale my bottom line? Because if one company is doing 10 million,


27:57

and they're spending a million. was talking to an agency just the other day. He's like, Oh, you know, COVID we were doing 13 million. What are you doing right now? We're doing 8 million a year. Like what's your expenses? He's like, our expensive has been the exact same. So the last five years, his business has slowly gone down and down and down. He hasn't changed his staff.  And so now he's break even. Imagine that your agency was doing 12 million, is doing about 5 million a year in profit. And now it's doing 8 million a year with no profit. So you have to be obsessed with profit.


28:27

all along the way. And of course, pipeline too. Look, because he wasn't obsessed about pipeline, he went from 15 million to 8 million. That's a crazy, crazy story. And I actually think that one company that you had advised about the revenue point employee, they did not last very long. A few months down the line and they were actually out of business. They were out of business because they're like, hey, our model doesn't work. Let's not spend the next 12 months trying to get the agency to work. We built an agency the wrong way. And so they actually ended up building different companies.


28:53

Well, there you go. So definitely focus on profitability. So ladies and gents, those were the seven things that we see after working with over 400 agencies at Pima from again, solo marketing agencies that are doing really well, eight and nine figure agencies with hundreds of employees. These seven things are number one, they sell outcomes, not services. Number two, they lead with a no brainer offer, making it so easy for new clients to jump in.


29:22

They never stopped selling after the first close, right? They are baking in upsells, cross-sells, referrals into their current process. Number four, they report like a SaaS company, dashboards, data, everything is focused on data. Number five, they're always building pipeline. They never stop building pipeline, even if they are at max capacity. Number six, they host quarterly business reviews where they are tying.


29:50

marketing that they're doing for the client to the client's bigger company goals. Number seven, they're obsessed with profitability. They're thinking about how they can use software and AI to scale, keeping revenue per employee really high with very low expenses, high profitability and really high margins. I want you to ask this magic question. And if you


30:15

ask this magic question, it's going to start moving you in the right way of thinking that's going to solve  many,  many of these seven, all with this one question. And that is, what would it take for us to deliver a result to my client cheaper than they can do it in-house  and have a 60 plus percent profit margin? Ask how can I, first can I, and you will be shocked at the creativity that you start bringing up with this, because guess what happens?


30:43

when I can deliver a result cheaper by outsourcing to me than that client can do in-house. And I can do it with a 60 % margin. Well, that allows me to make a really dang good offer because guess what? If it's cheaper to outsource to me and I can show that in my sales process, then it becomes a very, very low entry point for them to try us out and test us out. And because I know I can deliver on it, they're going to retain with us. And because my margin is so dang good,


31:11

and I'm delivering it cheaper, they're gonna retain for a long time, I'm gonna be highly profitable, and because the result is cheaper than they could do it in-house, they're also gonna wanna scale with me and stay with me for a long time. So ask that magic question, I promise you it's gonna help you out with many of these points, and it's not necessarily about  answering the question soon or immediately, it's about starting to think about what would have to change in your operations, in your cells, in your staffing, and the way that you...


31:38

do your systems and processes to actually make that happen. And I promise you, six months from now, 12 months from now, your company, you're gonna look back and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe how we used to actually run as such a bloated agency that didn't have all these systems and processes we now have. Yes, there's been no better time than right now to start looking at your agency differently. With software, AI, technologies and tools, it's completely shifting how agencies run.


32:07

So make sure that you are staying on top of asking the how can I question as Tim is mentioning, it can completely change the game for your agency. So that was it, ladies and gents, why most agencies fail and the seven things that winning agencies are doing differently. If you love this episode, if you found it helpful, make sure that you leave us a review, whether it's in Spotify,  Apple, podcasts, wherever you are listening, give us a review. helps so much.


32:34

Make sure you are subscribed to The Takeover wherever you are listening.  New episodes come out every week.  This was The Takeover with Tim and Cindy and remember, domination is not a destination. It is a way of life.  Stay winning.